Seems the Bar Council's Council members are more interested in the rights of the loud minority to hold a illegal demonstration on the streets then the safety of majority Malaysian who just wants their normal life to be uninterrupted by these demos which could potentially become violent and dangerous to the public. Bar President Lim Chee Wee's apologist for Bershit2 press statement here:
The following is a superb rebuttal by Blogger Tuan Syed of Outsyedthebox fame, and I am reproducing it in full for my record:
The above Press Statement by Lim Chee Wee the President of Bar Council is distorted and malicious. It gives much credence to the view that other than being bottom feeders, too many lawyers in this country speak with forked tongues.
The allegation (by anyone) that the entire electoral process in Malaysia is not clean and fair is malicious. Repeating such allegations, even for reference purposes, hints at malice.
Where is the proof that the whole electoral process in the country is not clean and fair? Being a lawyer and the president of the Bar Council, can Lim Chee Wee help the Bersih mobs bring forward any evidence that the whole electoral process in this country is not clean and fair? Pending such evidence, these allegations can be deemed lies. (Lim Chee Wee can position himself appropriately)
The accusation that the entire electoral process in Malaysia is unclean and unfair is a malicious generalisation. Lim Chee Wee should not be a party to this malice in any way. Not only are you the President of the Bar Council, I believe you are also a church going person.
But what exactly is the implied meaning of the accusation that the elections are not clean and not fair? Idle gossip may prevail even within the Bar but more substance is required to get nearer to the truth.
This type of drivel will sell among the hardcore fanatics and the converted zombies among the Pakatan mob. They need this to work themselves into a frenzy. But lets do some scrutiny shall we?
How does Lim explain the fact that Bersih, which the Bar Council is clearly in support of, have NOT refuted the results of the most recent general elections in Penang, Kelantan, Selangor, Perak and Kedah? The Opposition won these States. Can Lim Chee Wee help Bersih explain this anomaly? How can the Opposition win five States if the elections are unfair and unclean?
Does Lim Chee Wee know of any cases of ‘unclean and unfair’ election in any of those five States won by the Opposition on March 8th 2008? (I ask this because you say you support Bersih. It is important that you know what you are supporting, including questions they cannot answer or for which they have no answer).
Similarly in the recent Sarawak State elections, the Opposition DAP doubled its seats from six to 12. Can Lim Chee Wee help Bersih explain any ‘uncleanness and unfairness’ in any of the 12 seats won by the DAP in Sarawak? Or does the ‘unclean and unfair’ label only apply to seats where the Opposition lost? Lim Chee Wee, can you help Bersih show us just one example? (You say you support Bersih. Surely you must know the entirety of what you are supporting).
No bullshitting, no guesswork, no lies ok.
(This applies to the Pakatan supporters who will be sending comments in here too. Please provide facts. What your friend heard from his friend who heard it from his friend is not applicable. I will delete your comment)
As you know the allegation (through a Statutory Declaration) that Rosmah shot and killed Altantuya has now been denied by the person who made that Statutory Declaration. At that time, I personally asked him where he got the information that Rosmah shot and killed Altantuya? His reply to me was that the wife of a Malay Ruler (no need for names here) told it to someone who told it to someone else and on and on and it finally reached him.
Bear in mind that 'declarations' like these have incited the angry to become even more angry. Others who are more mischievous have manipulated 'declarations' like these to incite anger against a system they hate. You will know where to place yourself accordingly.
(So if any of you commenters make these types of unsubtantiated comments I will delete it. Give proper facts. Be honest guys. It does not mean that just because you support the sodomist and philanderer, that you must always tell lies)
It is a fact that Dato Mustapa Mohamed (UMNO - BN) lost the Manik Urai State seat in Kelantan by a razor thin margin of over 60 votes. TokPa complained and asked for a recount. The recount was denied because his polling agents and helpers made a mistake. Here is the story.
Before 2003 there was NO counting of votes at the Polling Station. Instead in every constituency, all the Ballot Boxes were transported from the various Polling Stations to one centralized Counting Centre. In Lembah Pantai, Kuala Lumpur the Bangsar Sports Complex was used as the Counting Centre. That is why in those days, the election results came in very late at night. All the ballots had to be transported to the Counting Centre, emptied out and counted.
Since 2003 the election rules have been changed. Now the ballots are counted at the Polling Station itself. No need to transport the Ballot Boxes to the Counting Centre anymore. Just like before representatives and agents of the candidates and many other representatives are present and watch with eagle eyes to make sure the Ballot Boxes are properly opened and that all the votes are properly counted.
The total number of votes counted at each Polling Station must also tally exactly with the number ofvoters who turned up to vote at that station. (Once you vote, your name is “crossed out” with that long ruler, the computer is also updated with your name and IC Number.) So the number of votes found inside the ballot box, the names and IC Numbers updated in the computer plus the number of names that have been “crossed out” on the election roll must match exactly).
So Lim Chee Wee, in the recent Sarawak Elections, please ask Bersih to show us at least one case where the number of voters whose names were crossed out DID NOT tally with the total number of votes found inside the Ballot Boxes? Give us just one example. You can especially refer the Senadin State seat where the Pakatan lost by 58 votes and kicked up a big fuss over the loss. (Blackout, floods, tempest etc).
Remember Lim Chee Wee, it is not a sin to tell the truth. You are the President of the Bar Council too.
Anyway after the votes are counted at the Polling Stations, the ballot slips are put back into the Ballot Boxes and sealed. The ballots have now become quite useless. A a form is filled up by the Polling Officer. It is called the Borang 14. Here is a copy of the Borang 14. This is an empty sample. Its no big deal - just a simple piece of stationery. You can click on the picture and then zoom in.
The Borang 14 lists down the total number of votes cast, which party won how many votes, etc. While the Polling Officer holds on to the original Borang 14, copies are immediately given to the representatives of each of the candidates contesting that seat - who are present at each individual Polling Station.
(How do I know all this? The Bloggers met with the SPR folks recently. We asked them a thousand questions. Even Ambiga would have been surprised at our questions. More to come.).
Now read this part very very carefully : This is why nowadays, after every By Election or General Election, very detailed “unofficial results” starts leaking out as early as 5.00 pm about which party has won exactly how many votes in exactly which polling station. You can figure out why. Because once the vote counting is over, every representative of each candidate at every Polling Station already has a copy of the Borang 14 in his possession. So they start smsing the results from individual Polling Station to their friends. That’s how we know the "unofficial" results so quickly.
So to the dungus who tell lies that the Ballot Boxes are stuffed with votes AFTER polling is over, they are lying. This is NOT possible. This was the accusation at Senadin in Sarawak. They say there was a "blackout" and the ballots were stuffed. (I will also be talking about Postal Votes later). Once the Borang 14 is issued, the ballot papers and the Ballot Boxes become useless. You can stuff as many votes as you want - the all important Borang 14 has already been issued.
And the Borang 14 does not become valid unless it is signed by the all the candidates or their representatives or agents at the Polling Station. So Lim Chee Wee, please tell Bersih to go and check in Senadin, Sarawak if all the Borang 14 were signed by the Pakatan candidate or not? He or his agents must have signed the Borang 14, otherwise they cannot announce the results for Senadin. Then please ask the candidate why did he or his agents sign the Borang 14 ??? Bodoh ke? If they say the ballot boxes were stuffed, conspiratorial blackout etc, why did they sign the Borang 14 ??
Remember it is not a sin to speak the truth.
The rules also say that once the election results are gazetted (within 21 days) then all the ballots must be destroyed. This is also why, after the elections are over, if for whatever reason anyone "reopens" the Ballot Boxes, they will find chewing gum wrappers etc inside these used Ballot Boxes. Election workers and staff (who are still trash throwing Malaysians) use these 'used Ballot Boxes' as trashbins. Why? Because once the Borang 14 has been issued, the ballot papers become quite useless.
So Lim Chee Wee, the president of the Bar Council, can you please assist Bersih to provide us evidence of just one case where ballots boxes were stuffed with votes?
How about the 16 By Elections that we have had since January 2009? Can you assist Bersih to show us just one case where ballot boxes were stuffed AFTER polling had closed? None? Not even one? But this is what Bersih is alleging also isn’t it? When you choose to throw your support behind Bersih, you must know all that they stand for - including their lies and b.s.
Let me make it even more easier for you. How about from the March 8, 2008 General Elections? Do they have even one complaint filed by anyone that Ballot Boxes were stuffed with votes? Ada ke tak ada? Just one ok. Remember Lim Chee Wee, it is not a sin to tell the truth.
Here is another one : do they have even one case where one person voted more than once? This has been the talk of the coffee shops for a long time also. Phantom voters, five Chinese voters registered in Mohd Azmij Ali's mothers house address. (Stay tuned folks I have the names of the five Chinamen who are registered as voters using Azmin's mother's house address). But can anyone bring forth just one case? Just one case where someone voted twice? Ada ke tak ada? Helloooo Lim Chee Wee?
But I want to go back to Dato Mustapa Mohamed (UMNO - BN) in Manik Urai, Kelantan. He complained that since he lost to PAS by a razor thin margin (within 4% of votes cast) he deserved a recount. But the election rules since 2003 say that the request for the recount must be made at the Polling Stations. This was not done by TokPa’s boys. They raised the protest after all the Borang 14s from the many Polling Stations were being compiled at the Vote Tallying Centre for the final announcement by the Returning Officer. It was too late. These are the rules folks. You can object but it must be done at the Polling Station. NOT AT THE VOTE TALLYING CENTRE. And once Tokpa and his agents had signed off on the Borang 14, you cannot object anymore. These are the rules.
In the recent Sarawak Elections that Pakatan candidate lost by just 58 votes in Senadin. Again he raised the objection too late, after they themselves had signed off on the Borang 14. This was the same issue raised by Dato Mustapa Mohamad (UMNO-BN) at Manik Urai. They apply equally to Tokpa (UMNO - BN) and anyone else.
Both in Manik Urai and in Senadin the candidates, their agents and reps etc WOULD NOT SIGN OFF the Borang 14 unless the number of voters whose names were manually cancelled on the electoral roll using the long ruler, the names and IC Numbers updated on the computer plus the actual number of ballots emptied from the Ballot Box all tallied. They must tally, otherwise it will become a big issue. And once the Borang 14 has been signed by all the candidates, Anwar Ibrahim can stuff as many ballot papers as he wants where the sun does not shine. It is too late. Borang 14 has been signed and issued.
Like all democratic countries with an established electoral process, Malaysia too has Courts which deal with elections petitions. Lee as a lawyer and President of the Bar should know this better. If legitimate disputes arise in any elections, then the affected parties have the right to approach the Court. This happens all the time too.
Then there are also election disputes which are settled “out of Court”. For example Lim Chee Wee must also explain the agreement that was achieved by both PAS and UMNO in Kelantan after the 2004 General Elections. There were nine Election Petitions filed by both UMNO and PAS against each other involving State seats in Kelantan. One of the State seats in dispute was Nik Aziz’s own seat.
Both sides were confident of presenting their evidence in Court. But some horse trading took place between PAS and UMNO. To avoid unnecessary risk of losing their seats in Court, Mustafa Ali of PAS met with representatives from UMNO and settled the matter out of Court. Both sides agreed to maintain the status quo. Both sides dropped their Election Petitions. This happened in 2004.
Since Mohd Sapu B.O, the main organiser behind the Bersih Rally is also the Deputy President of PAS, Lim Chee Wee must ask Mohamed Sapu B.O. why and how did the PAS come to make such an agreement with UMNO in 2004 to withdraw their Elections Petitions.?
If the elections are so dirty and unfair in this country as alleged by Mat Sapu B.O, why did PAS come to agree with UMNO to withdraw their Election Petitions in 2004? Lim Chee Wee, it is not a sin to tell the truth. So please go and ask Mohd Sapu B.O. to explain to you. He is the main organiser behind Bersih for which you have openly declared your support.
So someone, anyone please provide evidence of “unfair” and “not clean” elections. Be specific. Coffee shop talk cannot be presented as evidence. It is also unbecoming of a lawyer and Bar Council president to be persuaded by coffee shop talk. Where is the evidence which persuaded you to support Bersih?
If Bersih wishes to dispute the electoral process minus evidence, based on mere accusations, wild allegations or based on deceit, as an excuse to demonstrate in the streets, what then is their real intention ? Do you want to be a party to this? If your answer is yes, why so? What are the demons that are propelling you in such a direction?
The announcement by Bersih that they wish to hand over a Memo to the YDP Agong on July 9th is dishonest. Till today they have not made any attempt to even communicate with the Office of the YDP Agong. Isnt this strange? You say you want to hand over a Memo to the YDP Agong. But todate you have NOT even written to the YDP Agong asking for an appointment to hand over the Memo to him. Isnt that kurang ajar? This is the King, the YDP Agong you are talking about. Not the “Friends In Conversation” with whom you have ‘teh’ tarik.
It is obvious that they are merely abusing the YDP Agong’s good name for their political agenda. The Malaysian public is not that obtuse to be not able to see through this ruse.
They have made known to the whole world that they will be marching to the gates of the Istana to hand over a Memo. But they have not had even the slightest courtesy to petition the YDP Agong to seek an audience, even at his front gate. Ambiga is manifesting a riff raffness that seems to be written on her forehead.
Bersih’s fear is that the Agong may indeed agree to receive a Bersih delegation to meet him privately to hand over their Memo.
BUT what if the YDP Agong changes the date? Say BEFORE or AFTER the 9th of July.
What if the Agong says, ‘Ok guys, since you want to give me a Memo, send three Bersih people to see me on the 7th of July.’ Their demo planned for July 9th will die a quick and natural death.
Or if the YDP Agong says “OK send three people to see me but on the 12th of July. I am busy on the 9th.” Bersih will be caught with their pants down. (L*wat may get excited though).
Or what if the YDP Agong says, “OK I will meet you on the 9th of July but come to my palace in Kuala Terengganu”. Ambiga and Mat Sapu B.O may be gasping for oxygen.
Or the YDP Agong says, ’Ok guys. Come over and give me your Memo at the riding club’.
That will be really quite disastrous for Bersih. The YDP Agong can really mess their plans to run mad in the streets. That is why they have no intention of asking the YDP Agong permission to meet him. (Anyway sources say that the YDP Agong will not even be in the country over 9th of July).
But so what? Bersih does not want to meet the YDP Agong. They don’t want to go early on the 7th either. Neither do they want to show any respect to the Agong in Kuala Terengganu. Or met him at the riding club. They just want to demonstrate in the streets. This is a mob.
Please note that almost 1400 Police Reports have been lodged against the Bersih rally by various people. Never before in the history of Malaysia have 1400 Police reports been lodged against any one single disruptive event.
Then Lim Chee Wee also exhibits stupidity when he tries to draw parrallels with Dato Onn Jaafar’s protesting against the colonialist Malayan Union threat in 1946. Malaya was not yet an independent nation at that time. There were no free elections at all. Period.
Dato Onn Jaafar the founder of UMNO, was fighting against the British colonialists for the establishment of a free and democratic country. Lim Chee Wee apa pasal lu dungu sangat? He cycled to the kampongs and spoke to the people about their freedoms. He did not run amok in the streets like Bersih.
.If elections had been made available to Dato Onn by the British, he would have certainly made use of the electoral process. We know this for a fact because after the formation of UMNO in 1946, Dato Onn Jaafar suddenly left the party because he wanted non Malays to join UMNO and be given equal voting rights in all affairs of the UMNO party.
When his ideas were rejected, Dato Onn did not demonstrate in the streets. Instead he stuck to the democratic process and formed a new multi racial political party called Party Negara. After Independence when his new party was defeated at the ballot box (Dato Onn himself won just one seat in Terengganu in 1959) Dato Onn faded away from the scene. He died in 1962. But he will be forever renowned and remembered for sticking so closely to democratic ideals. He was truly a man who was far ahead of his time.
Sorry lah but Lim Chee Wee’s attempt to sully the good name of Dato Onn Jaafar exposes a “New Village” idiot - of the same pedigree as riff raff. Dato Onn was a great man. Please do not try to equate his achievement to the mobs that you support. Or try to elevate the mobs up to the level of Dato Onn. Dia punya kasut pun lu tak boleh pegang.
Lim Chee Wee’s dungu-ness continues. He also says : “Subsequent UMNO leaders have also led street demonstrations, for example to call for independence, and those in support of the Palestinians”.
.The Malayan Union was mooted in 1946, 11 years before Independence in 1957. There were no free elections in 1946. We were a colony, colonised by the British. The anti - Malayan Union movement was calling for freedom from colonialism.
Today we are an Independent nation, with our own King, Parliament and we govern ourselves. There are no more British colonialists around. UMNO did NOT run wild in the streets in the same scale Bersih already did in Kuala Lumpur once before in 2007, and is planning to do again.
When the Colonial British gave up their plans for the Malayan Union in January 1948, the protests led by UMNO also stopped. Malaya walked peacefully towards Independence from 1948 onwards, despite the fact that there were no elections at all in colonial Malaya until seven years later in 1955. The first “General Elections” were held peacefully in Malaya in 1955. The Alliance (Barisan Nasional) won 51 out of 52 seats. There were no street demonstrations.
Lim Chee Wee should know that it was the Communists who could not accept a non Communist Malaya or a non violent political process. They chose to wage war against the Malayan people. At that time Chin Peng had no idea that his face would one day be printed on a T shirt by supporters of Bersih.
Clearly, Lim Chee Wee is conveniently ignorant of truth and quite dense when it comes to the history of the nation.
As a lawyer and President of the Bar Council, Lim Chee Wee must also advise the people that Section 27 of the Police Act 1967 – requiring a permit for a public rally – has not been abolished. It is still therefore the law of the land. And the Police have the discretion to allow or refuse permits for public gatherings.
The President of the Bar Council is stoking flames if he even suggests that the people of Malaysia NEED NOT obey Section 27 of the Police Act or any other laws of Malaysia. (That is what you are doing when you say you support the illegal Bersih Rally which has NOT been given a Police Permit).
Inciting the people to disobey the Law of the Land is an act of Sedition. Anyone can be arrested, tried and jailed for sedition if he tells people to disobey Section 27 of the Police Act or any other Law.
If a law is seen as unjust, then Lim Chee Wee as the president fo the Bar Council must know that the correct means to address the issue is through the Electoral Process and the Legislature. Since the majority vote in this democratic system finds it to their great benefit to maintain such legislation, it is therefore not the right of the minority mobs to impose their will on the majority through dubious and malicious methods outside the democratic process. It will become gangsterism. The law of the jungle.
Let us settle our differences through the Ballot Box. This country is a democracy. For 56 years UMNO and the Barisan Nasional have made sure that General Elections are held every five years like clockwork.
Even when we had a glitch in 1969, and inspite of the absolute powers granted to the National Operations Council headed by Tun Abdul Razak, the father of the present Prime Minister, our country still went to the polls like clockwork in 1974. Among the member nations of the Commonwealth, Malaysia along with very few other countries, now boasts of the longest tradition of a safe and predictable electoral process.
Being the president of the Bar Council, which often becomes unduly inebriated over issues like this, Lim Chee Wee must understand that in a democracy it is a fundamental principle that the majority brings into effect legislation through which the people then govern themselves.
The Police Act does not derive its powers from the IGP or the Minister of Home Affairs. Neither should the Police take instructions from Bersih or Lim Chee Wee.
The Police Act remains in force because we the people have given it such powers. If the Police wish to exercise their discretion according to Section 27 of the Police Act it is because we the majority of the voters have elected to grant the Police such powers. And todate the majority of voters are quite happy with what we have done.
.It becomes the law of the jungle when riff raff and mobs seek to dictate to the majority that the majority should listen to the whims of the mob.
L*wat has declared in public that he can pick up the phone, call Ambiga and ask her to call off the mob. Despite Ambiga’s play acting rebuttal, it simply goes to show the gangster attitude behind his statement : ’I can ask her to call it off anytime’. Macam bapak dia punya negeri.
.If the lawyers, if the President of the Bar Council itself and Opposition Members of Parliament (who are themselves lawmakers) do not want to respect the Laws of the Land, then how do you expect the ordinary people to obey the Laws of the Land?
Many years ago, the DAP sent flowers to one Prime Minister with a note reading, ‘Where democracy fails, revolution is the answer’. Let me repeat to you this most pertinent observation by the DAP. Indeed “where democracy fails, revolution is the answer“.
If the majority of the electorate in this democratic country get fed up with the incessant demand by a minority mob, that the laws of this country should be broken or bent to suit their whims and fancies, then indeed democracy has failed..
It is turning out to become the tyranny of the minority mobs against the majority. Democarcy has failed. What you are asking for then is a revolution. If that is your wish, let me assure you that the majority will not shy away from heaping such a revolution on your head.
The country is heading towards chaos because of the gangsterism and the tyranny of the minority. If you don’t stop, a time will come when this will have to stop. Please be on notice.
.May I also take this Opportunity to advise the Minister of Home Affairs and the IGP to rise to the occasion. The majority of the people are behind you wholeheartedly. It rests upon your shoulders to save the nation from the mobs. Also from the sodomists, adulterers, liars and their lying wives, lying children, lying families and friends with their lies and deceptions.
I must also put the Minister of Home Afairs and the IGP on notice. The new IGP Tan Sri Ismail Omar is reputed to be a straightforward and hardworking man who lives in a regular terrace house..
Todate over 1400 Police Reports have been made against this illegal riot that is being planned by this mob. It is enough evidence that the majority of the people do not want to see the peace and harmony of the nation disrupted by these mobs. So please take decisive action. If even one single individual (it does not matter whether from bersih, kotor, anugerah tuhan, Pemuda UMNO, Perkasa or whoever) gets hurt or gets his or her head cracked - then the IGP must resign. You must take responsibility Tuan..
And if anyone gets killed on July 9th, (from any side at all) then both the IGP and the Minister of Home Affairs must resign. 1400 Police reports have already been made. That is an extremely loud and clear message to you from the people, to do your job. Do not say that you could not do anything..
Since Lim Chee Wee is said to be a church going man, here is something from the Al Kitab which you believe is Allah's Word :
Romans 121 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:
25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature: (passions of dishonor)
27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.
So Lim Chee Wee, you well know that the man is a sodomist, an adulterer, a philanderer, a liar, a cheat. A bad actor. A nothing. This little romp he is planning on the streets is to divert attention away from the demons which posses him. For he is certainly possessed.
Where do you come in? We can understand your hatred against the status quo in this land, the religious bigotry and the thousand other things that have gone not so well. Ok, you can say this is your enemy. And the enemy of your enemy is of course your friend..
But consider this though : What if it is you who are the enemy? Or the enemy is also in you. And you dont realise it. Then, should the enemy of your enemy still be your friend?.
No matter how great your anger against the status quo, do not cohabit with the serpent. You will get bitten. Read in full here,
Ya Lim it'll be a peaceful walk in the park, by the way can you give a Personal Guarantee that it would be peaceful when the demonstrators consisting mostly of PAS and PKR supporters not interested about a clean election but rather insistent to create chaos and nuisance on the streets to provoke the police to take action to disperse them by force? I think its naive indeed to think the illegal demo on the streets will be anything but peaceful.
Perhaps after a whipping in public by a blogger never before received by a Bar Council President, Lim should do the right thing and resign and join either PKR, PAS or the DAP.