Update 24 April 2012,
Another enlightening comment from Dato' Dr. Looi that I would like to share with readers, notice that they do not have Stop Arafura, Stop Avalone, Stop Molycorp compaign in Australia, South Africa or USA:
hwlooi said...
Original posting:
"Remember the Tin slags from the Eastern Smelting and Straits Trading in Penang ? These, which contain the tantalum and monazite ore, and the monazite ore can be more than 3,700 % more radioactive than the Lynas waste.
And these radioactive tin slags were used to fill up the old Penang Stadium and the roads in Penang. A lot of these has already been stolen and sold off at a huge profit, but a lot still remains in the roads in Butterworth and Penang island.
The people in Penang have not developed Cancer so far as a result of these slags!"
hwlooi said...
New Rare earth plants
1. Arafura di Whayalla Australia
2. Great Western Minerals di Steenkampskraal South Afrika
3. Avalon Rare Metal di Thor Lake Canada
4. Alkane di Dubbo New South Wales Australia
5. Molycorp Inc. in Mountain Pass, California, USA
In the past the rare earth plants in America were closed for the same reason why any mine or company close down...it had become uneconomical i.e. losing money!
This was because at that time China was selling rare earth elements at a ridiculously low price and nobody could compete with them.
Feb 22, 2012 :
Molycorp Inc. said it will start up a newly constructed rare earths processing plant at its Mountain Pass, Calif., operation this week.
Crushing and cracking operations as well as the facility’s combined heat and power plant are scheduled to come online this week, while other components—including milling and mineral extraction, rare earth oxide...
Australians building Giant Rare Earth Plant in Australia:
It should also be noted that Australians are delighted that a company called Arafura is building a huge Rare Earth Processing Plant costing over A$1 Billion in Whyalla in South Australia.
This plant is expected to produce over 1,000 high paying jobs for the Australians.
Arafura must be hoping that we are stupid enough to stop Lynas and stop competing with them.
Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London
1. Arafura di Whayalla Australia
2. Great Western Minerals di Steenkampskraal South Afrika
3. Avalon Rare Metal di Thor Lake Canada
4. Alkane di Dubbo New South Wales Australia
5. Molycorp Inc. in Mountain Pass, California, USA
In the past the rare earth plants in America were closed for the same reason why any mine or company close down...it had become uneconomical i.e. losing money!
This was because at that time China was selling rare earth elements at a ridiculously low price and nobody could compete with them.
Feb 22, 2012 :
Molycorp Inc. said it will start up a newly constructed rare earths processing plant at its Mountain Pass, Calif., operation this week.
Crushing and cracking operations as well as the facility’s combined heat and power plant are scheduled to come online this week, while other components—including milling and mineral extraction, rare earth oxide...
Australians building Giant Rare Earth Plant in Australia:
It should also be noted that Australians are delighted that a company called Arafura is building a huge Rare Earth Processing Plant costing over A$1 Billion in Whyalla in South Australia.
This plant is expected to produce over 1,000 high paying jobs for the Australians.
Arafura must be hoping that we are stupid enough to stop Lynas and stop competing with them.
Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah.
FAMM, MB., ChB(Manchester), MRCS(England), MRCP(UK), MRCP(London
Original posting:
"Remember the Tin slags from the Eastern Smelting and Straits Trading in Penang ? These, which contain the tantalum and monazite ore, and the monazite ore can be more than 3,700 % more radioactive than the Lynas waste.
And these radioactive tin slags were used to fill up the old Penang Stadium and the roads in Penang. A lot of these has already been stolen and sold off at a huge profit, but a lot still remains in the roads in Butterworth and Penang island.
The people in Penang have not developed Cancer so far as a result of these slags!"
Dr. Looi Hoong Wah
My recent post on Lynas Gebeng had a surprise distinguished visitor, Datuk Dr. Looi Hoong Wah himself, I would like to share his comments, which would more or less put paid to the rubbish and scare mongering by the Stop Lynas crowd. I am reproducing his comments in full as follows, please read:
hwlooi said...
All the Anti-Lynas foot soldiers and RED GUARDS BARU should realise that they have been misled by some very sophisticated ultra-devious people who are experts in mass brainwashing and are using the issue to gain political mileage for their own evil ulterior motives.
In Bukit Merah, the radiation comes from Thorium and Uranium which are our own and has been in Malaysia for billions of years.
Although the radiation level is well over 37 times that of the Lynas waste, there is no definite well controlled scientific proof that the cases of leukaemia and birth defects are caused by radiation from the waste.
I have seen lots of cases of leukaemia and other types of cancer as well as birth defects over the last 45 years or so in Malaysia and unfortunately we do not have Lynas around at that time to use as a scapegoat.
Unscrupulous people have been using videos and pictures of patients with congenital abnormalities and other illnesses to instil fear into the population. There is absolutely no scientific proof that these cases are caused by radiation.
Only the absolutely immoral people would use pictures and videos of these unfortunate patients whose disorders have nothing to do with radiation to score political points !
In the south of the state of Kerala in India the soil contains as much as 4,000 ppm (parts of Thorium per million). Studies have shown that there is little or no accumulation of Thorium-232 in the inhabitants.
The Lynas waste contains only 1,650 ppm.
It has been estimated that in the worst case scenario, the radiation risk from the Lynas plant is only 0.002 mSv/yr.
In Ramsar, Iran, the naturally occurring radiation
is extremely high at 260 mSv/yr.
This is 13,000,000% higher than the expected worse case scenario in Kuantan.
And the people in Ramsar, Iran has been found to be healthier and live longer than the rest of the Iranians! There is also no increase in the number of cancer cases.
Remember the Tin slags from the Eastern Smelting and Straits Trading in Penang ? These, which contain the tantalum and monazite ore, and the monazite ore can be more than 3,700 % more radioactive than the Lynas waste.
And these radioactive tin slags were used to fill up the old Penang Stadium and the roads in Penang. A lot of these has already been stolen and sold off at a huge profit, but a lot still remains in the roads in Butterworth and Penang island.
The people in Penang have not developed Cancer so far as a result of these slags!
Even ordinary Sand (crystalline silica, SiO2) is classified as a group 1 Carcinogen (a confirmed cancer causing agent), but as you know, we do not expect a huge number of people in living in the deserts or along the seashores to die from silica induced lung cancer.
The lung cancer risk occurs only when fine sand (silica) is inhaled by miners for a prolonged period in the quarries and mines i.e. silica is not a carcinogen when ingested and of course not when injected for nobody would allow you to inject sand into their veins.
Thorium-232 is a very weakly radioactive substance and produces only alpha particles which cannot even penetrate a thin piece of paper.
All you have to do is to wrap it up in a piece of newspaper and it is for all intents an purposes, is non-radioactive !
" Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE."
It is not considered to be a cancer causing substance if taken orally or inhaled according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer IARC, just like silica (sand) which is not carcinogenic if ingested.
Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah
In Bukit Merah, the radiation comes from Thorium and Uranium which are our own and has been in Malaysia for billions of years.
Although the radiation level is well over 37 times that of the Lynas waste, there is no definite well controlled scientific proof that the cases of leukaemia and birth defects are caused by radiation from the waste.
I have seen lots of cases of leukaemia and other types of cancer as well as birth defects over the last 45 years or so in Malaysia and unfortunately we do not have Lynas around at that time to use as a scapegoat.
Unscrupulous people have been using videos and pictures of patients with congenital abnormalities and other illnesses to instil fear into the population. There is absolutely no scientific proof that these cases are caused by radiation.
Only the absolutely immoral people would use pictures and videos of these unfortunate patients whose disorders have nothing to do with radiation to score political points !
In the south of the state of Kerala in India the soil contains as much as 4,000 ppm (parts of Thorium per million). Studies have shown that there is little or no accumulation of Thorium-232 in the inhabitants.
The Lynas waste contains only 1,650 ppm.
It has been estimated that in the worst case scenario, the radiation risk from the Lynas plant is only 0.002 mSv/yr.
In Ramsar, Iran, the naturally occurring radiation
is extremely high at 260 mSv/yr.
This is 13,000,000% higher than the expected worse case scenario in Kuantan.
And the people in Ramsar, Iran has been found to be healthier and live longer than the rest of the Iranians! There is also no increase in the number of cancer cases.
Remember the Tin slags from the Eastern Smelting and Straits Trading in Penang ? These, which contain the tantalum and monazite ore, and the monazite ore can be more than 3,700 % more radioactive than the Lynas waste.
And these radioactive tin slags were used to fill up the old Penang Stadium and the roads in Penang. A lot of these has already been stolen and sold off at a huge profit, but a lot still remains in the roads in Butterworth and Penang island.
The people in Penang have not developed Cancer so far as a result of these slags!
Even ordinary Sand (crystalline silica, SiO2) is classified as a group 1 Carcinogen (a confirmed cancer causing agent), but as you know, we do not expect a huge number of people in living in the deserts or along the seashores to die from silica induced lung cancer.
The lung cancer risk occurs only when fine sand (silica) is inhaled by miners for a prolonged period in the quarries and mines i.e. silica is not a carcinogen when ingested and of course not when injected for nobody would allow you to inject sand into their veins.
Thorium-232 is a very weakly radioactive substance and produces only alpha particles which cannot even penetrate a thin piece of paper.
All you have to do is to wrap it up in a piece of newspaper and it is for all intents an purposes, is non-radioactive !
" Thorium-232 is considered to be a carcinogen only IF ADMINISTERED INTRAVENOUSLY AS A COLLOIDAL DISPERSION OF THORIUM-232 DIOXIDE."
It is not considered to be a cancer causing substance if taken orally or inhaled according to the International Agency for Research on Cancer IARC, just like silica (sand) which is not carcinogenic if ingested.
Dato' Dr Looi Hoong Wah
hwlooi said...
There are only 2 natural ways of getting any substance into your body:
1. By Eating it (Ingestion) or
2. By Breathing it (Inhalation)
Thorium-232 in clay soil cannot get into you blood stream if you eat it because of it's strong adsorption to clay (stuck firmly to clay).
As explained below, you need to eat far more than 17,000 Kilograms of Lynas waste before you can get cancer in about 30 years time in your old age.
Likewise, you need to breathe in 3.4 Kilograms of Lynas waste (in order to get 5.58 gm of Thorium or 1 vial of Thorotrast) to get cancer in about 30 years time !
As stated, Kuantan people are not MINERS and as such it is impossible to inhale 3.4 Kilograms even in a life-time !
Thorium-232 is harmless when outside the body as it produces only alpha rays which cannot penetrate even a thin piece of paper.
All you have to do is to wrap it up in a piece of newspaper and it will become virtually non-radioactive.
So if Thoriun-232 cannot get into the body in significant amount by inhalation or ingestion and it poses no external threat,
HOW and WHY on earth IS IT CONSIDERED TO BE SO DANGEROUS BY THE ANTI-LYNAS PEOPLE ?
My Reply to Soo Jin Hou’s Letter in the Sun Daily
“LET’S de-politicise the Lynas issue” (Letters, March 23) refers.
The writer said 0.02% to 0.05% of ingested thorium is absorbed and gets into the blood stream. Absorption studies were done on animals for obvious reasons, and in the vast majority of these, the thorium was not mixed with clay, which binds very strongly to the clay particles i.e. adsorbed.
Thorium-232 is strongly bound (adsorbed) by soil especially clay soil. The thorium concentration in the clay particles is about 500,000% higher than in the water between the clay particles (the interstitial spaces of the clay particles). So, it cannot be leached out by water or intestinal juice.
When ingested, there is insignificant absorption of the thorium because of this strong bond between clay particles and thorium. Practically all the thorium will be excreted in the faeces with the clay.
So the actual amount of thorium that is absorbed into the blood stream when mixed with clay soil as in the case of the Lynas waste is much, much less than 0.02%.
Since Lynas waste contains 1,650 parts of thorium per million and even if we take the inflated rate of 0.02% absorption, it would mean that to get 0.33g of thorium into the blood stream, we have to swallow 1,000kg (1 tonne) of Lynas waste!
Practically all the data on the carcinogenic effects of thorium-232 was obtained retrospectively from the intravenous use of a massive dose of thorium dioxide called Thorotrast (a 25cc vial of a 25% colloidal suspension of thorium dioxide) in investigative radiological studies.
Studies appear to show that a small number out of the 4 million patients who were given this massive dose of 1 or 2 vials (containing 5.58g to 11.7g of thorium) of Thorotrast, developed cancer especially of the liver 20 to 30 years later in their old age.
So in order to get 5.58g of thorium-232 (equivalent to 1 vial of Thorotrast), we have to swallow an incredible 17,000kg or 17 tonnes of Lynas waste!
I do not think anybody in Kuantan will be able to swallow 17 tonnes of Lynas waste … and that is assuming that the thorium-232 is not strongly adsorbed to clay particles.
With respect to the inhalation of thorium-232, all studies were conducted on workers in the uranium or thorium mining or refining industry and not on populations in towns like Kuantan, and therefore do not apply to the present issue.
Datuk Dr Looi Hoong Wah
1. By Eating it (Ingestion) or
2. By Breathing it (Inhalation)
Thorium-232 in clay soil cannot get into you blood stream if you eat it because of it's strong adsorption to clay (stuck firmly to clay).
As explained below, you need to eat far more than 17,000 Kilograms of Lynas waste before you can get cancer in about 30 years time in your old age.
Likewise, you need to breathe in 3.4 Kilograms of Lynas waste (in order to get 5.58 gm of Thorium or 1 vial of Thorotrast) to get cancer in about 30 years time !
As stated, Kuantan people are not MINERS and as such it is impossible to inhale 3.4 Kilograms even in a life-time !
Thorium-232 is harmless when outside the body as it produces only alpha rays which cannot penetrate even a thin piece of paper.
All you have to do is to wrap it up in a piece of newspaper and it will become virtually non-radioactive.
So if Thoriun-232 cannot get into the body in significant amount by inhalation or ingestion and it poses no external threat,
HOW and WHY on earth IS IT CONSIDERED TO BE SO DANGEROUS BY THE ANTI-LYNAS PEOPLE ?
My Reply to Soo Jin Hou’s Letter in the Sun Daily
“LET’S de-politicise the Lynas issue” (Letters, March 23) refers.
The writer said 0.02% to 0.05% of ingested thorium is absorbed and gets into the blood stream. Absorption studies were done on animals for obvious reasons, and in the vast majority of these, the thorium was not mixed with clay, which binds very strongly to the clay particles i.e. adsorbed.
Thorium-232 is strongly bound (adsorbed) by soil especially clay soil. The thorium concentration in the clay particles is about 500,000% higher than in the water between the clay particles (the interstitial spaces of the clay particles). So, it cannot be leached out by water or intestinal juice.
When ingested, there is insignificant absorption of the thorium because of this strong bond between clay particles and thorium. Practically all the thorium will be excreted in the faeces with the clay.
So the actual amount of thorium that is absorbed into the blood stream when mixed with clay soil as in the case of the Lynas waste is much, much less than 0.02%.
Since Lynas waste contains 1,650 parts of thorium per million and even if we take the inflated rate of 0.02% absorption, it would mean that to get 0.33g of thorium into the blood stream, we have to swallow 1,000kg (1 tonne) of Lynas waste!
Practically all the data on the carcinogenic effects of thorium-232 was obtained retrospectively from the intravenous use of a massive dose of thorium dioxide called Thorotrast (a 25cc vial of a 25% colloidal suspension of thorium dioxide) in investigative radiological studies.
Studies appear to show that a small number out of the 4 million patients who were given this massive dose of 1 or 2 vials (containing 5.58g to 11.7g of thorium) of Thorotrast, developed cancer especially of the liver 20 to 30 years later in their old age.
So in order to get 5.58g of thorium-232 (equivalent to 1 vial of Thorotrast), we have to swallow an incredible 17,000kg or 17 tonnes of Lynas waste!
I do not think anybody in Kuantan will be able to swallow 17 tonnes of Lynas waste … and that is assuming that the thorium-232 is not strongly adsorbed to clay particles.
With respect to the inhalation of thorium-232, all studies were conducted on workers in the uranium or thorium mining or refining industry and not on populations in towns like Kuantan, and therefore do not apply to the present issue.
Datuk Dr Looi Hoong Wah
I have nothing further to add except that I hope the Gomen stop mucking about with the Stop Lynas group and allow Lynas Gebeng plant to proceed with the initial operations so that Lynas can measure whatever need to be measured in their plant supervised by the AELB experts as a prelude to a longer long term license to operate.
